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[#53508]
Written by: pipoxyz [30/08/2007, 05:56] |
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i recently got disconnected again by my isp because they got some mail about me sharing copyrighted material..i searched the net for possible preventions and found peerguardian, and while using it on eztv, it found a lot of monitoring sites. allthough this peerguardian seems a reasonable solution, i bet there will allways be some procentage of undetected monitorring going on. i found 'www dot i2p dot net' which is basicly a seperate protocol, that uses packages without sender or receiver, has no trusted party with torrents, uses 4 types of encryption, tunneling and so on. it can be used to chat, surf, torrent and host pages with .i2p those are only accessable from with the i2p protocol, and the hosting party is next to impossible to identify. negative point is, that like torrents, it needs a populated network to function propperly.(at least for fast torrent speeds) would it be possible for you to start a eztv mirror in the i2p domain? this would solve 99% of all anonimity problems related to torrents, and these $%#$#& mpaa & co may find another outlet of being anoying instead of buggering us sweet torrenters |
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[#53525]
Written by: pipoxyz [30/08/2007, 09:53] |
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great, thanks for looking into this, i really hope this could prove usefull 
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[#53579]
Written by: pipoxyz [31/08/2007, 02:33] |
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yes, its true..its extremely slow, just because of that reason. the other reason is that their default config sets your peerspeed to 16kb up and download, which is ofc is a bit slow;) if big sites, like eztv, or piratebay , enter that domein, then, i assume this population will grow fast, and speed is no longer, or less of an issue. people that choose to download from i2p, do this with a reason. take piratebay or isohunt, i dont dare to download there without knowing my isp will recieve a letter about it. untill i used peerguardian i thought eztv was save, but after seeying the huge amount of monitorring parties, im hazitant about that too. also, in lots of countries, downloading is allowed, but uploading is illigal. personally i stop my torrents when around 100%, instead of the whole day, just for this reason. anyway..i think there are lots of advantages found in hosting a mirror in that domein, it doesnt need to be perfect right away, but it would make a huge statement, and it would be a unique service guarenteeing a 99% save way to copy present torrent speeds i get with my t100 are 5-10kb/s up and down. (after i reset my config to use 50mb up and down;) (ow, and from all the torrentsites in i2p, there is no 0day yet;) |
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[#53580]
Written by: frog1234 [31/08/2007, 02:36] |
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you'd need to use pretty much 0 hop tunnels to have decent speeds and while it couldn't be proven the tunnel was 0 hops to an absolute extent there would easily be little doubt. it may be worth it if it was easier to implement but it isn't easy, unless it has been improved it is very hard to get to work with azureus and impossible with most. if you are in a situation where you can't just hop on a public torrent you are better off paying for an ssl encrypted connection to a server that relays everything to you such as relakks (hxxps://www.relakks.com/?cid=gb)  or if you only want current tv and other current stuff then you can get a usenet account which allows ssl connections for not too much from many providers (giganews for example). you can get pretty much every ep eztv releases on usenet, and it's faster and you don't need to seed but it does cost $ and usenet software while not hard is a bit more work than torrents (especially since eztv seeds avi's not rar's.) but by the time you include the use of ssl you know you will never get any trouble from your isp. |
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[#53588]
Written by: pipoxyz [31/08/2007, 04:30] |
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thats a very good suggestion, i will definately check it out. a shame though, that paying for 'data' is for most people no solution. and in the more broader sense, what you say is that torrents are unsafe, and that to be safe, i need a different way of transport. which under these ci rcumstances is completely true, but what i suggest is a way to render torrents safe again, instead of ignoring the fact that this monitoring problem gets bigger every day, perhaps even untill torrents are rendered useless. the points you state are probably all valid(allthough i dont know how to check what you say about hops). the installation of azureus with i2p is indeed useless. i had to downgrade to v 2.304 to get it to even work. however, present versions of i2p have a webbased torrentclient build in, which is as simple as select source->run. i know that this is not enough for a lot of people, but keep in mind that once a page like eztv mirrors at i2p, this community will grow fast, and as soon as the major pages start taking this serious, so will the clients. so in my opinion, those problems can all be very temporary. |
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[#53589]
Written by: NovaKing (Administrator) [31/08/2007, 04:44] |
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we could simply just set up our own private network. but if you want people to have no latency issues, we would have to create nodes all over the world for it to work properly. this has been looked into a fair bit. and alas, for the amount of users we will probably get, i don't think we could possibly financially support it (maintaining the amount of servers required for it to work well is a huge task) i2p is rather limited. |
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[#53594]
Written by: pipoxyz [31/08/2007, 05:32] |
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financially, i can understand your opinion, allthough the required speeds and amount of servertime would, for this project, be far less. basicly 1 home computer would suffice to check if this idea has potential to grow under the ci rcumstances i described. the initial efford to set it all up would be huge. the creation of the nodes you describe, is basicly the same as what happens with torrents. because this principle behind torrents works, and i2p is basicly the same, only for all data, i am convinced that i2p does have a future as soon as people start using it. i dont see the limitations you mention, comparing to tcp it has much more to offer. |
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[#53704]
Written by: pipoxyz [01/09/2007, 02:40] |
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i cant empazhize enough that this suggestion was to give torrents a weapon to fight back, i know what to do to be safe, and indeed like you said, thats incomming traffic only, and outgoing through f t p, but i want torrentpages to think of actions that can be done against the everclosing mpaa & co. or all torrentpages will slowly die. i just read the piece about torrentspy, and that is a perfect example of a situation that could have been prevented when it was hosted under i2p. 1st, the torrentpage is anonimous(allthough eventually they will find it) then all the users are anonimous, nothing to record, and no ranges to ban. i know atm its no solid alternative, but only in a way a 1 peered torrent is useless. we gotta start somewhere. |
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[#53755]
Written by: Meads [01/09/2007, 14:50] |
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i've never had any of these said letters sent to my isp and i have been using public trackers for some time. |
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[#54279]
Written by: frog1234 [05/09/2007, 09:22] |
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ok, well unless i2p has changed hugely in structure there is a problem. as i poorly explained the only way to do i2p with torrents is to employ 0 hop tunnels otherwise the torrents will be too greatly slowed down, but 0 hop tunnels create statistically unlikely connection patterns (and if they are pretty sure everyone uses 0 hop tunnels then there is no security). it may be that they consider that to be enough and just stop there but it is more likely that they will use such analysis since after all none of this need hold up in court (and if not p2p why are you on such a network anyway, are you a terrorist or child pornographer?), just get you kicked from a psychopathic isp so to solve this (and hurt the i2p network) the tunnels need at least 1 intermediary (let's say the tunnel length jumps randomly from 0-2 averaging at 1), this means that half your bandwidth will be put into acting as a middle man, it means your torrents will go at half the speed and you will use twice the data. and yes it would mean you need to use some vanilla bt client, not the worst thing in the world, but still. however if you want to start this go ahead, download the files from usenet and seed them (with a 1 or more hop tunnel unless you want to be in trouble) and post the torrent to mininova. it is a decent idea but it's hard to get past the fact that it is a trade-off between speed and any real security and kills everyones favorite torrent clients and is likely even more difficult to do serverside. but hey if there are enough you might just start something. edit: as for novaking's comments it seems that they are assuming that protecting the seeders/servers/tracker while providing a fast service is the goal and if only protecting the peers is required it takes far less. |
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[#54282]
Written by: NovaKing (Administrator) [05/09/2007, 09:30] |
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you would need high piped tunnel network (aka a small internet) and you have peers connect to those tunnels (aka a small isp) but like i said, to set up something to work on even a remotely large peer based would cost a lot to set up properly. otherwise it is utter waste. if you also incorp ssl cert to your data, this provides and even more overhead. all in all, the cons outway the pros so far it is not worth looking into. |
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[#54354]
Written by: frog1234 [05/09/2007, 17:12] |
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are you referring to creating an independent network or using i2p's? to simply provide torrents without care to protecting the server, the seeders, the tracker (or care of loading the i2p network) through i2p and without too much concern for speed it wouldn't take very much at all, indeed a single computer would do (with a couple of hops) but the service would be poor and only leave the peers with reasonable protection. and would be poor use of eztv's resources i expect. |
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[#54478]
Written by: pipoxyz [06/09/2007, 05:39] |
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there are many reasons to want a total private protocol. just think of the developments in america, alowing them, to not only monitor communications in, or with america, but also traffic that passes america, or uses american services for communication outside america. i mean, i dont have to much to hide, but i only know this for sure for my own country. what if somewhere in the near future countries like america start blacklisting ppl for actions abroad that may not even be illigal there. (if that isnt allready happening) anyway..this is just one example of something we should activly protect. as for the problem with anonimity due to the limited hops, there are 3 point, i think that might counterbalance this. the first is the fact that the protocol is used for a variaty of data, ranging from webpages to mail, chat or torrents. all these packages look the same, and things like pages or chat may easily be set to more hops without critical slowdowns. second, lots of scanning parties seem to be from the companies themselves, which do not neccesarily have the resources to decrypt this information.(is it even legal to decrypt someones packages or is that equal to search without a warrant) third, internet gets faster every day, allmost all universities/campusses are connected to 100mb or 1gb lines, about 6 years ago, most universities where connected to 10mb or exeptional 100mb lines. in this same time consumers whent from a toprange of adsl of 1mbdown/320kbitup to 20mbitdown/1mbitup. i have had 100mbit full duplex for some years now, allowing me to download and upload +- 10mbyte/s. in reality, my downloads ranged from 200kb->800kb, and lately i donwload with about 1.5mb/s down 4mb/s up. but the fact that the most torrentusers have much slower connections then me, limits my speed far more then the suggested procentage of decrease from using these tunnels. i still get my movie within 10 minutes though, and to be totally honoust, if i want to see a movie in the evening, and i spot it in the morning, i dont really care if i get it in 10 minutes or a an hour. lets say that in a few years, a 10mb full duplex connection is a default low budget connection, this would allow for about 1mbyte/second.. now there is some tunneling and some decrease in speed, 50% speed, 500kbyte/s, 25%, 250kbyte/s, 10% , 100kbyte/s..all acceptable speeds. (comming from someone with a 100mbit connection). i mean, worsed case..100kbyte/s = 6mbyte/minute, is a movie in 2 hours. as for your suggestion for me to try it, well, i am/have, but there are some problems. there are just about 3 perhaps a few more torrentsites in the i2p. as i stated before i had huge problems with azureus, and i could only start a torrent with that..anyway..tht kinda failed, so i settled for seeding torrents that where allready there. but they are no 0day torrents. also this screwes up my ftp somehow and i havent found out why yet. and my computer goes to bed when i do, i dont leave it on 24/7  the biggest and most serious problem is however, that the network is just not populated enough to be a serious alternative. and one peer wont change that. for that to occur a serious population boost is needed, that in my eyes, can most easily (and perhaps only) be achieved when a popular torrentsite like eztv or piratebay, offers this as alternative. torrentsites basicly succeed in generating the neccesary networknodes for every torrent that gets distributed....in just a few minutes;) [edit and offtopic: i read my post back and made a funny conclusion namely that i dont think that torrents can survive with global full duplexness. most people seed untill a cirtain procentage and cut off the torrent, this works when internet is asymetric, which is true for most people, but with symetrical internet, i think torrents might bleed to death very very quickly.) [end edit and offtopicness;)] |
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